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Did God really say?

Explore the ancient question, "Did God really say?" Understand the origins of doubt and the consequences of disobedience through the timeless story of Eve and the forbidden fruit. Discover the interplay between faith and reason, and how obedience is the cornerstone of true fellowship with God.

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Did God really say?

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  1. Did God really say? 2012 LLC Summer Services Youth Discussion Adapted by Eric Jurmu from presentations by KeijoNissila; “The mystery of faith”- 1994 “Hath God said”- 2012

  2. Did God really say? • From where did this question come? • Why was this question asked? • People generally ask when they want to know about something. • But it is possible to ask for other purposes. • A question can raise doubt. • The evil one asked of Eve: “Did God truly say?” • What does this question mean? Or imply?

  3. Man – In the image of God, and his companion. In the beginning God created heaven and the earth. God created everything with His word, and saw that it was good. God created man in his image and as a companion.

  4. The snake – a picture of the enemy of the soul and the enemy of God “The serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made” (Gen3:1) First, the serpent is a symbol of understanding, wisdom and cunning. Secondly, the serpent is connected to death. A serpent is dangerous. It is poisonous. A snake bite can lead to death.

  5. The serpent begins the discussion It opened the discussion with “Did God actually say?” What was the intent of the question? The serpents word is set against God’s word Did God say “ye cannot eat of every tree of the garden?” “A small hook catches big fish”

  6. Eve’s Reply “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” Gen 3:3 Eve did not contradict what God had said; she said more than God had said. How should have Eve replied?

  7. The serpent debates or disputes God’s word “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:” Gen 3:4 “But that you would rather become as gods” The voice of reason led to doubts

  8. The fall into all falls - The fall into sin The conversation with the serpent concludes and Eve is left in her own thoughts. She is tempted to go from thoughts and words, to action. “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.” Gen 3:6

  9. The consequences of the fall into sin And the eyes of them both were opened... Gen 3:7 not as god’s but to shame. God asks 2 questions: “Who told you that you were naked?” “Have you eaten from that tree which I commanded you not to eat?”

  10. The forbidden fruit of the forbidden tree is a picture of the mystery of faith. It was a trial of obedience. Faith is obedience. Obedience, on its part, is part of the fellowship into which God created man. Obedience is hearing what God speaks and following it in faith. The fall began with man allowing himself to listen to the sermon of God’s Adversary. At the same time man ceased hearing and following God’s will.

  11. The temptation in paradise was to be able to enjoy the good and beautiful fruit and to come to know and understand all things like God. • Thus reason guided man and the pleasures of his senses tempted him. • After the fall into sin, each person is susceptible to the sermon of God’s Adversary, which appeals to reason and enjoyment of the senses. • Man wasn’t able to honor the mystery of faith. Honoring the mystery of faith is the road of self-denial. The voice of reason lead away from the place of an obedient child. Man wanted to satisfy his own will more than God’s will.

  12. The relationship between faith and reason was distorted by the fall into sin. • Faith was a condition of the unity of fellowship between God and Man. • Reason was given to man so that he could cultivate and care for paradise.

  13. Faith and Reason Faith Reason Reason is carnal. Reason is prone to turn against the written word of God. The Bible is often expected to answer questions which come from reason. • Faith is spiritual. • The Bible is not a textbook of natural science, geography, medical science or history. • The Bible is the textbook of one matter alone, which is faith.

  14. What Faith Is • The Bible, generally speaking, does not describe faith. • “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. … Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.” (Heb. 11:1,3)

  15. Faith is hope. • Faith reaches what is ahead of us, and what we otherwise would not be able to experience. With faith the future is present immediately. In faith, the object of hope affects here and now, even though the matter in question is in the future, not yet experienced. But faith believes that it will happen and lives in accord with it and receives strength for life from it.

  16. Abraham Abraham’s faith was obedience to God’s call and trust upon God’s guidance. Abraham’s faith was hope. Faith leads from this day unto tomorrow.

  17. Faith is directed towards that which we can’t see. Thus faith is the evidence of things not seen. Faith functions like a telescope.

  18. Noah Noah’s faith was the evidence of things not seen. Noah’s faith was contrary to reason and to people’s general opinion. Noah’s faith upon things not seen caused people to ridicule him.

  19. One Mystery of Faith Today • The foundation of the family is marriage. • Before marriage there is a time of courtship and engagement. • After marriage the mystery of man and woman is unlocked. • "Has God truly said so?"

  20. Faith is God’s Gift • The Bible states that all can’t believe, as faith isn’t for every man. (2 Thess. 3:2) • The gospel is the mystery of God, which is hidden from the world, but is manifested and revealed to believers. • The gospel is the power of God unto salvation. (Rom. 1:16)

  21. The highest example of faith is the Lord Jesus Christ: For future heavenly joy, He endured the world’s ridicule and suffering on the cross, and now sits on the right hand of God’s throne. Hebrews encourages, “For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.” (Heb. 12:3)

  22. Discussion Questions • In which matters does faith help us to see, understand, and hope? • In which questions of life do we experience the mystery of faith? • How do we care for the gift of faith in a good conscience? • How is the mystery of faith revealed in courtship and marriage? • Is there reason to remember our brother and sisters in faith today?

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