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To Feel (in) the Dagger

To Feel (in) the Dagger. The concept of Fuhlen without contact of blades (presentation of a hypothesis) Karel Černín, Revertar. Sources for techniques used. Danzig (1452, Cod.44.A.8 ) Talhoffer (1443, MS Chart.A.558; 1450, MS 78.A.15; 1459, MS Thott.290.2º; 1467, Codex Icon 394a)

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To Feel (in) the Dagger

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  1. To Feel (in) the Dagger The concept of Fuhlen without contact of blades (presentation of a hypothesis) Karel Černín, Revertar

  2. Sources for techniques used Danzig (1452, Cod.44.A.8) Talhoffer (1443, MS Chart.A.558; 1450, MS 78.A.15; 1459, MS Thott.290.2º; 1467, Codex Icon 394a) Kal (cca 1470, CGM 1507) Wallerstein (cca 1470, Cod. I.6.4°.2) Falkner (1495, MS KK5012) Goliath (cca 1510, MS German Quarto 2020) Dürer (1512, MS 26-232) Berlin (1512, Libr.Pict.A.83) Glasgow (1508, MS E.1939.65.341) partly: Liberi (cca 1410, Pisani-Dossi Edition) Marozzo (1536, Opera Nova)

  3. Inspiration Eli Steenput: oponents reaction to one technique can create opening and opportunity for another Colin Richards: Fuhlen can be used to choose between different techniques Anton Kohutovič: to apply Fuhlen you need to put oponent under pressure

  4. Executive summary PRIMARY COUNTER (plan A): Catch attacker´s armed hand, push it out of the way, keep contact and control. If you have a dagger, stab. / If not, hit him in the face and throw him. FUHLEN: If you fail (he counters), feel the pressure of his armed hand. SECONDARY COUNTER (plan B): According to WEICH or HERT apply locks, breaks, disarms and throws.

  5. High stab – Upper shield Talhoffer 1459 64v

  6. Primary counter = stab Liberi (Pisani-Dossi) 10v

  7. HERT: Secondary counters Talhoffer 1467 t. 182, Goliatht. 11

  8. WEICH: Secondary counters Wallerstein 25r, Talhoffer 1450

  9. System in the dagger fighting: A hidden truth or a sophisticated lie?

  10. Reasons FOR the system Complex locks and disarms don´t work as primary techniques beacuse: attacker escapes attacker counters Quick primary counter forces attacker to react and opens opportunity for applying more complex techniques

  11. Reasons AGAINST the system Not supported by manuscripts – all techniques appear to be „primary“. Different possible explanations for broad portfolio of techniques - choice might be based on: defender´s preferences or intent attacker´s characteristics (taller/smaller, stronger/weaker…) attack (angle, positions of feet…) Chaotic situation after primary counter – „what if“ syndrom

  12. Stillwant to hear more ofour „sophisticatedlies“? Herewe go! 

  13. A.Unarmed

  14. Highstab – lefthandblock Talhoffer 1450

  15. Primarycounter = neckthrow Talhoffer 1450

  16. HERT: Secondarycounters Talhoffer 1459 61v, Durer t.48, Berlin 52v (Danzig 86r)

  17. WEICH: Secondary counters Talhoffer 1443 t. 121

  18. B.Armed

  19. Highstab – lefthandblock Falkner 46v

  20. Primary counter = stab Talhoffer 1467 t.190

  21. HERT: Secondarycounters Talhoffer 1467 t.178, Talhoffer 1459 70v,Talhoffer 1467 t.188

  22. WEICH: Secondary counters „| Merck | hater den degengefast | dasdiescheibanseine~ klainefingerstet | vndstichtdirobenzu° sover ker deinlinckehant | vnd var vonvndenauf | vndbegreifÿm den arm~ vorñpeÿ der hanntvnderseine~ degen | vndwürgÿm den degenmitdeine~ linckenarm~ vbersichauf “ Danzig 94v-95r Falkner 48v

  23. A.Unarmed

  24. High stab – right hand block Talhoffer 1450

  25. Primary counter = throw Marozzo t.61

  26. HERT: Secondarycounters Talhoffer 1443 t.118 „Sticht Er aber den oberñ stich zu dir / nach deine~ haubt / oder zu der prust / so far von vndtñ auff mit der rechtñ ewichen hant / vndter sein rechte hant / vnd begreyff in den arm~ / vnd mit der linckn hant vber sein rechtñ arm~ / thue den tegen võ dir / so nymbst du im den tegeñ / oder wurfst in vber ein pain / als oben gemalt stet / „ Glasgow 98r

  27. WEICH: Secondary counters Talhoffer 1450

  28. B.Armed

  29. High stab – right hand block Berlin 61v

  30. Primary counter = stab „| Merck sticht er von oben nyder | vnd hat den degen gefast das die scheib hinden an der hant stet | So fass dein degen auch also | vnd stich von vnden auf mit verkartemdegen gegen seinen stich | vnd lass dir die hant nicht begreiffen | vnd stich in das gesicht ~“ Danzig 95r Berlin 65v

  31. HERT: Secondarycounters Talhoffer 1443 92r, Kal 77v

  32. WEICH: Secondary counters Berlin 55r, Talhoffer 1459 65v

  33. A.Unarmed

  34. Low stab – both hands block Talhoffer 1450

  35. Primary counter = throw „Var mitdeinerlinckenhantvorñfürseinhals | vndschreitmitdeinemlinckenfueshinderseinenrechten | vndwürfÿnvberdeinlincksknÿeausdemfuess ~“ Danzig 96r

  36. HERT: Secondarycounter Falkner 52r

  37. WEICH: Secondarycounter „| Wenn dir einer mit dem degenvnden zu° sticht so begreif ÿm den arm~ arm~ mit paidenhenden | vnd lauf ÿm durch den arm~ | vnd halt fest | So prichstu Im den arm~ auch nÿmpstu Im den degen | ob dw wild ~“ Danzig 96r Berlin 53r

  38. B.Armed

  39. Lowstab – lefthandblock Kal 76v (catching the hand - Danzig 94v)

  40. Primary counter = stab Berlin 38r

  41. HERT: Secondarycounter Talhoffer 1467 t.182

  42. WEICH: Secondarycounter Kal 77r

  43. bonus:Armed

  44. High stab – dagger block Talhoffer 1443 88v

  45. Primarycounter = armbreak Wallerstein 22v

  46. HERT: Secondarycounter Talhoffer 1459 64r

  47. WEICH: Secondarycounter Wallerstein 25v

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