Mengzi and Xunzi

1. Mengzi and Xunzi

2. 371-289 BCE “second sage” of Confucianism contemporary of Zhuangzi Mencius 孟子

3. The Internal Confucian Debate on Human Nature • Mengzi / Meng-tzu: humans as moral agents • Xunxi / Hsün-tzu: human nature equated with self-interest

4. Early Chinese Views of Human Nature • neither good nor evil (Gaozi) • equal parts of good and evil (a Han theory) • some persons good, some persons evil (Wang Chong) • evil (Xunzi) • good (Mencius)

5. Early Chinese Views of Human Nature • neither good nor evil (Gaozi) • equal parts of good and evil (a Han theory) • some persons good, some persons evil (Wang Chong) • evil (Xunzi) • good (Mencius)

6. Gaozi • Gaozi said, “Human nature is like swirling water. Open a passage to the east, and it flows east. Open a passage to the west, and it flows west. The basic indeterminacy of good and evil in human nature is just like the basic indeterminacy of east and west in the flow of water.” (6.A.2) Water flowing west Water flowing east Does water flow east “naturally”? What is the analogy to human nature?

7. Mencius said, “Water certainly has no particular tendency to flow east or west, but can the same be said of flowing up or down? The basic goodness of human nature is just like the downward flow of water. There is no more a human being utterly lacking in goodness than there is such a thing as water that does not flow downward. VI.A.2 Does water flow down “naturally”? What is the analogy to human nature? Water flowing down Water flowing down

8. Can water flow up? What is the analogy to human nature? • “Now, with my hands or my feet I can splash water over my head; by channeling it, I can direct it all the way to the top of a hill. But is this the basic nature of water? No. These results are due to external force. The fact that people can be made to do evil reflects the same violation of their basic nature.” (6.A.2)

9. Human nature is good Every person has the natural inclination to do good, and this natural inclination is ren (perfect co-humanity) “What I mean by saying it is good is that there is that in our nature which is spontaneously part of us and can become good. The fact that we can become bad is not a defect in our natural endowment.” (6.A.6. Eno translation) Quoting Mencius: “To be human (人) is to be co-human (仁)”

10. Gaozi said: “Human nature is like a willow tree; righteousness is like cups and bowls. To make human naturebenevolent and righteous is like making a willow tree into cups and bowls.” (6.A.1) Human nature Willow tree Benevolent Cups Righteous Bowls

11. Human nature Willow tree Benevolent Cups Righteous Bowls • Mengzi said: “Can you make cups and bowls from willow wood by following its natural grain or is it only after you have hacked the willow wood that you can make a cup or bowl?” • “If you must hack the willow to make cups and bowls from it, must you hack people in order to make them humane and righteous? ” • Answer to the question: For Gaozi …. For Mengzi…. • 6.A.1

12. Natural Goodness • Humans all have the heart of compassion 惻隱之心. • Humans all have the heart of disdain for evil 羞惡之心. • Humans all have the heart of respect 恭敬之心. • Humans all have the heart of approval and disapproval 是非之心. (6.A.6) 惻隱 cèyǐn Compassion – Concern (Commiseration) 羞惡 xiū è Disdain for evil -- Shame 恭敬 gōngjìng Respect – Yielding (Deference) 是非 shìfēi Approval and disapproval -- Judgment This is from ch. 6

13. This “Heart” defines “human nature” • “Clearly, one who did not have the heart of concern would be inhuman. One who did not have the heart of shame for wrong-doing would be inhuman. One who did not have the heart which places others before oneself would be inhuman. And one who did not have the heart which distinguishes between right and wrong would be inhuman." • “One who lacked a sense of dismay in such a case could simply not be a person. And I could further show that anyone who lacked the moral sense of shame could not be a person; anyone who lacked a moral sense of deference could not be a person; anyone who lacked a moral sense of right and wrong could not be a person.” (Eno translation) • (2.A.6) This is from ch. 2

14. What do people have in common? • 心之所同然者何也？ • 謂理也，義也。 • 聖人先得我心之所同然耳。 • 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口 • Mencius (6.A.7 – last paragraph)

15. 心之所同然者何也？ • 謂理也，義也。 • 聖人先得我心之所同然耳。 • 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口

16. 心之所同然者何也？ • 謂理也，義也。 • 聖人先得我心之所同然耳。 • 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口

17. 心之所同然者何也？ • 謂理也，義也。 • 聖人先得我心之所同然耳。 • 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口 • Eno translates this: last paragraph of 6.A.7

18. 心之所同然者何也？ • 謂理也，義也。 • 聖人先得我心之所同然耳。 • 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口

19. 故理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口 理義之悅我心，猶芻豢之悅我口 “Righteousness and virtue delight my heart just like meat delights my mouth!” 悅 yuè to please(like food, or music, or beauty) chúhuàn 指牛羊猪狗等

20. The “heart” of goodness • Mencius said: “All persons have a heart which cannot bear to see the suffering of others. The Sage Kings had such a heart, and their governments did not permit the suffering of the people. In ruling the kingdom, if you manifest this heart to implement such a government, you can hold the world in the palm of your hand. • “What I mean by saying that ‘all persons have a heart which cannot bear to see the suffering of others’is this: • Anyone who suddenly came upon a toddler about to fall into a well would have a heart of alarm and concern. And we cannot say that this heart arises from wanting to be favored by the parents, or from seeking the praise of one's friends and community, or from hoping to avoid a reputation for callousness. • “Clearly, one who did not have the heart of concern would be inhuman. One who did not have the heart of shame for wrong-doing would be inhuman. One who did not have the heart which places others before oneself would be inhuman. And one who did not have the heart which distinguishes between right and wrong would be inhuman.” II.A.6 The Sprouts of Virtue

21. feelings as moral inclinations (the “four sprouts”) 1.concern gives rise to jen/ren (co-humanity) 2. shame gives rise to yi (righteousness) 3. yielding gives rise to li (propriety) 4. judgment gives rise to chih/zhi (wisdom) Now the sense of dismay on another’s behalf is the seed of ren planted within us, the sense of shame is the seed of righteousness (yi), the sense of deference is the seed of li, and the sense of right and wrong is the seed of wisdom. Everyone possesses these four moral senses just as they possess their four limbs. (Eno translation) 2.A.6 – repeated at 6.A.6

22. The Developmental Aspect 1.concern gives rise to ren (co-humanity) 2. shame gives rise to yi (righteousness) 3. yielding gives rise to li (propriety) 4. judgment gives rise to zhi (wisdom) (Discussing evil kings with Gaozi): “As for their essence, they can become good. This is what I mean by calling their natures good. As for their not becoming good, this is not the fault of their potential.” (6.A.6)

23. feelings as moral inclinations (the “four sprouts”) • “The heart of concern is the sprout of ren (benevolence). The heart of shame is the sprout of yi (righteousness). The heart of yielding is the sprout of li (propriety). The heart of judgmentis the sprout of zhi (wisdom).” • “Having these four ‘sprouts’ is like having arms and legs. If you say that you cannot act upon them, you are discrediting yourself, just as if you say that a ruler cannot act upon them, you are discrediting his rule. Anyone who has these four sprouts within themselves knows how to develop them and perfect them: they are like the initial spark of a fire, or the first waters of an open spring. If you can perfect them, you will be able to embrace the whole world with your virtue; if you do not perfect them, you will not even be able to serve your own parents.” (2.A.6) • the force of these senses will burst through us like a wildfire first catching or a spring first bubbling forth through the ground (Eno translation)

24. Things people (including “sages”) have in common • Mouths & tastes • Ears & pleasure in listening • Eyes & standards of beauty • Concern • Shame • Yielding • Judgment • “Goodness”?

25. The meaning of xing (性) • 吾生於陵而安於陵，故也； • 長於水而安於水，性也 (Zhuangzi’s swimmer 《達生》) • Having been born on land I am at ease on land; that was originally in me. • Having grown up in water, I am at ease in water; that is my nature.

26. 性 “Xing is not a superordinate and univocal principle that inheres in all human beings at brith. While there is a givenness to xing as an inherent organizing structure that persons in general develop after conception, it also suggests the dynamic process of becoming human” (p. 189)

27. Metaphors for 性 in Mencius • Growing trees and animals • Ripening grain • Cultivating crops • Flowing water “Strictly speaking, a person is not a sort of being, but first and foremost a doing or making, and only derivatively and retrospectively, something done” (ibid., p. 190)

28. So, why are some people evil? • “In years of plenty, most young men are lazy; in years of poverty, most young men are cruel” (6.A.7) • “The trees of Ox Mountain were once beautiful. But because it bordered on a large state, hatchets and axes besieged it. Could it remain verdant?...” (6.A.8) • “Those who follow their greater part [the heart] become great humans. Those who follow their petty part [the ears and eyes] become petty humans” (6.A.15)

29. Review • What do people have in common? Goodness? • If so, then why are some people evil? • Following Zhuangzi’s definition of xing (性) (human nature), what does Mengzi mean when he says that “human nature is good”? • What was Gaozi’s view, and how does Mengzi’s differ? end

30. Xunzi 荀子

31. 5. “Against Physiognomy” • 9. “The Regulations of a True King” • 17. “Discourse on Heaven” 天論 • 19. “Discourse on Ritual" 禮論 • 21. “Undoing Fixation" 解蔽 • 23. “Human Nature is Bad” 性惡

32. 天論 17. Discourse on Heaven

33. “Strange Events” “Marvel at them but do not fear them” Stars fall Trees make strange sounds The sun and moon are eclipsed Wind and rain do not come at their proper time Strange stars appear “Marvel at them and fear them as well” The plowing is poorly done and the crops suffer The weeding is badly done and the harvest fails The government is evil and loses the support of the people The fields are neglected and the crops badly tended Grain is being imported from abroad and sold at a high price People are starving and die by the roadside Government commands are unenlightened Public works are undertaken at the wrong season Agriculture is not properly attended to The people are called away for labor in the wrong season Cows and horses are left to breed Ritual principles are not obeyed Family affairs and outside affairs are not properly separated Men and women mingle wantonly Fathers and sons begin to doubt each other Superior and inferior become estranged Bands of invaders enter the state “such things occur once in a while with the changes of Heaven and earth and the mutations of yin and yang” “portents such as these are born from disorder…the reasons for their occurrence may be found veryclose at hand”

34. Prayer and Sacrifice • 雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。 • One performs the rain sacrifice and it rains…. • …then one will have ill fortune.

35. 雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。 • You pray for rain and it rains. The reason? I say: No reason. It’s as if you did not pray and it rained anyway. • The sun and the moon are eclipsed and you try to save them. • The sun beats down and you pray for rain. • You divine before making a big decision. • But nothing is accomplished from any of this – they are performances (文). • That’s why a junzi sees them as “performances,” while the common people see them as “[acts of the] gods.” To seem them as [human] performances is fortunate; to see them as divine [acts] is unfortunate.

36. 雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。 • You pray for rain and it rains. The reason? I say: No reason. It’s as if you did not pray and it rained anyway. • The sun and the moon are eclipsed and you try to save them. • The sun beats down and you pray for rain. • You divine before making a big decision. • But nothing is accomplished from any of this – they are performances (文). • That’s why a junzi sees them as “performances,” while the common people see them as “[acts of the] gods.” To seem them as [human] performances is fortunate; to see them as divine [acts] is unfortunate.

37. 雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。 • You pray for rain and it rains. The reason? I say: No reason. It’s as if you did not pray and it rained anyway. • The sun and the moon are eclipsed and you try to save them. • The sun beats down and you pray for rain. • You divine before making a big decision. • But nothing is accomplished from any of this – they are performances (文). • That’s why a junzi sees them as “performances,” while the common people see them as “[acts of the] gods.” To seem them as [human] performances is fortunate; to see them as divine [acts] is unfortunate.

38. 雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。雩而雨，何也？曰：無何也，猶不雩而雨也。日月食而救之，天旱而雩，卜筮然後決大事，非以為得求也，以文之也。故君子以為文，而百姓以為神。以為文則吉，以為神則凶也。 • You pray for rain and it rains. The reason? I say: No reason. It’s as if you did not pray and it rained anyway. • The sun and the moon are eclipsed and you try to save them. • The sun beats down and you pray for rain. • You divine before making a big decision. • But nothing is accomplished from any of this – they are performances (文). • That’s why a junzi sees them as “performances,” while the common people see them as “[acts of the] gods.” To seem them as [human] performances is fortunate; to see them as divine [acts] is unfortunate.

39. Xunzi’s religious skepticism “Always when people see ghosts, it is at times when they are aroused and excited, and they make their judgments in moments when their faculties are confused and blinded” So… what is the value and purpose of religious ritual?

40. 天有其時 • 地有其財 • 人有其治 • 夫是之謂能參 • Heaven has its “time” • Earth has its “material” • Man has his “governance” • And that’s called“forming a triad”

41. 禮論 …性惡 19. Discourse on Ritual 23. Human Nature is Bad

42. Mengzi and Xunzi • Mencius: feelings as moral inclinations (the “four sprouts”) • Xunzi: “Human Nature is Bad” (ch. 23) What is Xunzi’s line of argument in this essay?

43. Xunzi’s view of human nature • 人生而有欲 • “Man is born with desires” What does Xunzi include among these yű? 欲

44. Xunzi’s view of human nature • 人之性惡，其善者偽也 • 性 human nature • 偽 artifice, ornament, intentional action, conscious action, deliberate effort evil good 《性惡》

45. 《性惡》 • “By nature, people are selfish.* Without teachers and standards of conduct, they see things only in terms of benefit to themselves. And if the age in which they live is chaotic, they acquire its chaotic practices.” Hutton: “People’s nature is such that they are born with a fondness for profit.” *生 而 有 好 利 焉

46. 先王惡其亂也 The sage kings despised this chaos, • 故制禮義以分之 and so they established the rites to differentiate them [according to class], • 以養人之欲 to corral people’s desires, • 給人之求 and provide to them their proper satisfaction.

47. “The Regulations of a True King” (ch. 9) • 今人之性惡，必將待師法然後正，得禮義然後治

48. 今人之性惡 • 必將 • 待師法 • 然後正 • 得禮義 • 然後治 • Similarly, since man’s nature is evil, it must wait for the instructions of a teacher before it can become upright, and for the guidance of ritual principles before it can become orderly.

49. 今人之性惡 • 必將 • 待師法 • 然後正 • 得禮義 • 然後治 • Similarly, since man’s nature is evil, it must wait for the instructions of a teacher before it can become upright, and for the guidance of ritual principles before it can become orderly.

50. 今人之性惡 • 必將 • 待師法 (fa) • 然後正 (zheng) • 得禮義 • 然後治 • Similarly, since man’s nature is evil, it must wait for the instructions of a teacher before it can become upright, and for the guidance of ritual principles before it can become orderly.