Dr Kimberly Collins , Teesside University Michelle Mattison , Triangle & Lancaster University

1. DrKimberly Collins, Teesside University Michelle Mattison, Triangle & Lancaster University “People talk about child protection being the experts and it’s not until you come to Triangle that you realise you really ain’t got much of a clue”: a discussion of Triangle’s innovative approach to interviewing child witnesses

2. Objectives • Describe and explain what Triangle does with respect to the interviewing of child witnesses. • Describe the findings of the feedback from police practitioners that use Triangle’s services. • Highlight the innovative approaches used by Triangle that improves: • The practice of police practitioners. • The participation of children involved in the criminal justice system.

3. About Triangle An independent organisation who: • Work directly with children and families • Consult children about their lives, their experiences and the services that they use • Give expert opinion to the courts • Teach and advise parents & professionals • Provideassessment, advocacy, support and communication assistance • Conduct, support and assist investigative interviews

4. Children and young peoples’ roles at Triangle • Adviser, consultee, expert on own experience • Supporter and facilitator of younger children • Video developer, communication demonstrator • Trainer of professionals & parents • Recruitment adviser • Interior designer • Earner

5. Triangle’s role during police investigations and court proceedings • Hosting assessments, ABE interviews, trial prep and (hopefully soon) remote livelink • Directly interviewing children as instructed by family courts and police • Providing witness intermediaries at interview and trial • Providing intermediaries for young suspects at interview and for young defendants at trial • Providing training and resources

6. Triangle’s experience of investigative interviews • Triangle have acted as interviewers or intermediaries with more than 500 child witnesses • Age range 2-15, most under 7 • About 30% have communication impairment e.g., autism/learning disability • About 50% have language delay • About 50% show signs of PTSD • Most are victims of rape, serious sexual or physical assault, or witness to murder or attempted murder of a sibling or parent • 20% were investigations of physical assault/ child cruelty with child as victim • 10% had also witnessed severe domestic violence; 5% had witnessed murder

8. Set up for physical play: slide on the stairs; trampoline in the garden

9. Discussion/focus group • Hour long discussion group carried out with 15 police practitioners that have used Triangle’s services. Two facilitators (1 academic and 1 practitioner). • Diverse sample of interviewers, trainers and supervisors enabled a range of perspectives. • Mix of males and females and diverse age range. • Primarily from police forces in the south of England. • General/open questions used e.g. ‘how would you describe your work with Triangle to a colleague?’ ‘describe your practice since working with Triangle?’ tell us about some of the challenges involved in working with Triangle?’

10. Theme 1: child competency • “Triangle’s an initial gateway in with the victim for somebody to believe, because there’s still a myth out there at times where ‘oh they’re too young or whatever and it’ll never get to court. You’ll never get anything from them’ and I think this is a crucial, at times, gateway in to say well lets at least try and it’s that starting process”.

11. Theme 2: flexibility • “Yeah I think the drawing as well, because if they (the child) can’t verbalise it they might be able to actually demonstrate it in another way”. • “Just little prompts to help you, little ways of asking other questions and getting other ways of, and the prompts really help. I would never have thought of post it notes…and the quiet toys, its good to have those”.

12. Theme 3: Empowerment: • “I think what Triangle’s doing makes us think about what we’re doing and question what we’re doing and be stronger in our arguments internally about what we’re doing and why we’re doing  it.” • With regards to intermediaries - “You feel special being with an experienced person who knows exactly what they are doing. It feels so fabulous to have that support there. Y’know actually the interview’s not going to be a loss because the two of you can sort  it out”. • “It makes you believe in yourself and want what’s best for the child”.

13. Theme 4: safe space • “They have somebody here all the time who will stay with the child. If the child wants to come out of the ‘talking room’ if you like and just play there is that independent person there, if you hit a bit of a sticking point with your questioning and the child’s having a bit of a break it will give you that few minutes to recap and rethink knowing that the child is safe”.

14. Theme 5: Three way communication • “You are actually interviewing together, you can bounce off each other and you can take the pressure away from the child and you can say ‘oh I’m not actually sure what she means’ and do it like that and I’ve taken that into future ABEs”.

15. Theme 6: Training and knowledge • “There’s a massive financial implication to that and the organization I bet would say no to a lot of it because it’ll cost money, because it’s a specialist service and it should cost money, I’m not saying we should get it for free, but that’s why well certainly in our office we’ve had discussions were the decision has been made for interviewing a young child and using an intermediary there is always a discussion about cost and whether we should or shouldn’t do it”. • “As an interviewer I don’t really think about that very much I know that with interviewing children and their communication I might have to adapt but I don’t know, to have that, like that (knowledge) put in front of me, I can’t remember the last time I had something like that and that’s really, really important because it brings you back to reality doesn’t it”.

16. Summary • Triangle are forward thinking in their approach to conducting, supporting and assisting investigative interviews with children. • They adopt a child centred approach in their methods of interviewing and assessing children through the use of their facilities and resources. “5 star interview suite”. • It enhances the practice of the interviewers and (according to the officers) results in the best possible evidence from children. • We believe it is a template for how interview practice should be conducted with children internationally.

17. Giving a voice to children • “I think if we use the example that was covered (in Triangle training) this morning with the three year old that was interviewed, so she was one of nine under three, and she was the oldest, Triangle has given a voice to children by the work that’s been done”. Thank you for listening. Any questions? k.collins@tees.ac.uk michelle@triangle.org.uk / m.mattison@lancaster.co.uk