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HyperNews for LHCb

HyperNews for LHCb. Tim Adye, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory presented by Jim Libby, Oxford University Physics - HLT – Computing Plenary LHCb Collaboration Week, Heidelberg 13 th September 2006. Outline. What is HyperNews? Why switch? HyperNews in LHCb How do we get started?

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HyperNews for LHCb

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  1. HyperNews for LHCb Tim Adye, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory presented by Jim Libby, Oxford University Physics - HLT – Computing Plenary LHCb Collaboration Week, Heidelberg 13th September 2006 Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  2. Outline • What is HyperNews? • Why switch? • HyperNews in LHCb • How do we get started? • User registration and subscription • Migrating existing lists • Concluding thoughts References Backup slides Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  3. What is HyperNews? • We could use it as a replacement for most of our Simba2 mailing lists • Also has features of • bulletin board systems (like RootTalk) and • news systems (like Usenet) • Not intended to replace TWiki or web pages • Widely used in HEP • BaBar, H1, STAR, Geant4, CMS, ATLAS,… • Heavily used: BaBar 400,000 messages since 1997;CMS 32,000 (December 2005);Atlas 8,000 (January 2006); LHCb test 200 • Continuing development • HyperNews server managed by LCG • runs independent instances for all four LHC experiments Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  4. Why Change from Simba E-mail Lists? • Web archive is central to HyperNews • Web access to Simba archives very cumbersome • Not so bad via Outlook, but only really for CERN local users • single, integrated, system instead of disjoint mailing lists • can search all fora at once • see all recent posts (all or a subset of fora) • displays threads • Threads, sub-threads, individual postings have a static URL for easy reference • Eg. in other postings, TWiki pages, private e-mail • easy to browse, very fast to search • I searched for “database” in 400,000 BaBar posts. It found 18,000 in under a second • Can post via the web or e-mail Tim Adye / Jim Libby

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  7. Keeping up to Date • Can subscribe to receive posts as e-mails • Simple and powerful control of what you receive • Whole forum or individual threads • Reply to post with e-mail, or follow link to web display • ... or keep up-to-date / catch up via the web • “recent posts” page Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  8. Give it a try in the “HyperNews Test Forum” Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  9. Lots of other nice features/uses ) ( • “on holiday” switch • automatic thread subscription • full thread view for printing • refer to old thread with a simple URL • … • Forum ideas: • new forum announcements, Q&A, chat, paper reviews, recipes, logbook… • anyone can ask for a forum, even if of minority interest Just ask any former BaBarian, and they’ll tell you how much they miss HyperNews Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  10. HyperNews for LHCb • LHCb HyperNews running since July • Contains a few initial fora • Tested by migrating lhcb-core-soft e-mail list • No big problems • Some concerns about how best to manage migration • Can always “catch up” with the “recent postings” web page • Once we get the go-ahead, new fora can be created on request • Migrate existing lists adiabatically • Let each group manage their own transition in their own time • A similar migration has been relatively painless in CMS and Atlas Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  11. How do I start using HyperNews? • From https://hypernews.cern.ch/ select LHCb • The first time (only) you use HyperNews, follow the“new member” instructions • If you have an LHCb AFS (lxplus) account, you can use this to register – just takes a minute • If you don’t, send an e-mail to the admin address listed there(hn-lhcb-admin@cern.ch) • LHCb members without AFS accounts get a manually-created account • Non-LHCb people can be subscribed to specific fora • Subscribe to the fora you are interested in • Just scan the list and check the boxes • If you subscribe to “HyperNews Announcements” then you will learn about new fora as they are created. ... or just wait for the announcement and follow instructions Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  12. How do I Migrate my E-mail list • Post a 2-week warning to the old list, so people know when the list will be migrated • Add hn-lhcb-admin@cern.ch as an owner of the old list • Allows me to manage the transition for you • Select “Request a New Forum” and fill in the details • Include the old list name in the description • I will take care of the rest... • Create the HyperNews forum • post final notice on the old list and in “HyperNews Announcements” • Will include reminders of how to register and subscribe • block posts and subscriptions on the old list • This is important to prevent people accidentally posting to the old list, not realising that the message only goes to old members • I will keep an eye out for people accidentally using the old list Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  13. Final Thoughts • Effective communication is crucial in a large geographically-distributed collaboration like LHCb • Meetings, documentation, TWiki, and e-mail all useful forms of communication • But e-mail has problems when collaborating with many people • private e-mail restricted to those in the loop • mailing lists OK for announcements, not so good for discussion • mailing lists most useful if also easily used after the fact • HyperNews addresses these issues • makes collaboration e-mail more Wiki-like • encourages open communication • opens up archive – documentation for free Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  14. References • HyperNews development • D.A.Smith, P.Elmer, T.Hung,HyperNews - managing discussions in HEP, CHEP06 • http://hypernews.slac.stanford.edu/ • LHCb instance • https://hypernews.cern.ch/HyperNews/LHCb/top.pl which is linked from • https://hypernews.cern.ch/ Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  15. Backup Slides Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  16. Design choices • Why not automatically register all LHCb members?Why not automatically transfer subscriptions from the old lists? • Start as we mean to go on • Simba based on e-mail address, HyperNews based on account name (usually tied to AFS account) • No 1-to-1 correspondence for many people, leading to confusion and lots of extra work • Besides, self-subscription is trivial • just check the box • can review what other lists to join on the same page • Why tie HyperNews account to AFS account? • Allows quick, reliable, and secure initial authentication • Allows easy HN password setting, if forgotten • Though many people let their web browser remember for them • Compatible with CMS and Atlas – simplifies management Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  17. Why not use <insert-cool-technology> instead? • I haven’t done a full survey but, for collaboration, I find HyperNews the most convenient • cf. Usenet, BBS (like RootTalk), discussion ‘blogs • and of course mailing lists and private mails • It is widely used in HEP, so familiar to some • Ask any former BaBarian, and they’ll tell you how much they miss HyperNews • LCG run the server for us • We know the developers • at SLAC and CERN (Pete Elmer, CMS) Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  18. Limitations of HyperNews • All fora are open to all collaboration members • private lists should remain in Simba2 • All e-mails to/from HyperNews are converted to plain text • attachments are stripped off – give a URL instead • good practice anyway – don’t fill up peoples’ inboxes • URLs are automatically turned into links in web view • Support for HTML and attachments will be added soon • Used to be a problem with threading posts from Microsoft Exchange • MS hotfix in January (applied at CERN, RAL,...) • After only 29 years, Microsoft support SMTP RFC! • Still relies on Simba spam filtering • Next version will have SpamAssassin built-in Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  19. CMS Migration Experience • ~ 30 CMS lists migrated since December 2005 • All of the computing and software lists are in HyperNews • Most of the big "analysis" and "analysis/reco" lists migrated • Only some smattering of detector groups, so far. • Following a similar “adiabatic” procedure as we plan • LHCb have 65 Simba lists in total, though I don't know how many of those are active. • Also created ~60 entirely new HyperNews fora Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  20. Discussion fora (1) • Everyone should subscribe to “HyperNews System Announcements” • New fora announced here, allowing people to subscribe • Eventually could migrate nearly everything that currently has a mailing list • Eg. one forum for each detector and software subsystem • In some cases, it is useful to have separate “development discussions” and “user questions” fora • Experts subscribe to, or watch, both • Users post to the latter, receive e-mail responses without having to subscribe • Can also browse/search this forum to see if it has already been answered • Soon users start to help other  Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  21. Discussion fora (2) • “Task forces” and system/paper reviews have their own fora • Separates out short-term discussion, while maintaining a record in the archive • Can also be used as a shared record of important e-mails • Eg. communications with journals, approvals, minutes of external meetings, etc. • Just forward them to the appropriate e-mail gateway address • I already created some generic fora • Linux, programming, and (La)TeX questions • HyperNews announcements, feedback, and test • Use “HyperNews Test Forum” to play with the system • CERN Computing Announcements • Automatic feed from info-experiments@cern.ch • Chat and discussion that doesn’t fit elsewhere Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  22. Other Use Cases • If a question or discussion has come up before, just post a link to it • No need to copy text • The questioner can see the full discussion / thread • Sometimes a discussion strays to another forum’s topic • Post replies in new forum with link to old + quick link oldnew • Short-term documentation, recipes, and kicks can be posted as a HyperNews announcement with a link from the documentation • When it becomes obsolete, remove the link • a record remains of what people recommended • Sort-term only: not a substitute for proper documentation! • Can easily migrate to Wiki Tim Adye / Jim Libby

  23. Fora requested by each group, but categories defined in advance can be changed of course, but not from the web form Forum categories • Currently have: • Computing • Computing Operations • General Discussions • HyperNews • Could add now or later: • Journal Paper Reviews • Perhaps add: • Online Computing • Offline Computing • Physics Analysis • Trigger • Detector Subsystems • or one category per subsystem? • National Discussions • Collaboration Matters • Detector Commissioning / Operations Tim Adye / Jim Libby

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