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Mini-Socratic Seminar

Mini-Socratic Seminar. QUESTION 1 Psychoanalyze Holden. What is at the root of his problems? What incidents or thoughts Holden has expressed so far show this? QUESTION 2

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Mini-Socratic Seminar

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  1. Mini-Socratic Seminar QUESTION 1 Psychoanalyze Holden. What is at the root of his problems? What incidents or thoughts Holden has expressed so far show this? QUESTION 2 The book was written more than a half a century ago. Yet, many feel that it reflects contemporary adolescents’ feelings and experiences. What is timeless and universal about the novel? What can you specifically relate to in the book? Not relate to at all? QUESTION 3 Is Holden a sympathetic character? If he were a student at WHS, would you be his friend? Why or why not? QUESTION 4 Holden dislikes much about people, his life, and the world. But what does he like or see as good in the world? Does the book end on an optimistic note?

  2. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Symbols • The little boy singing “If a body catch a body, coming through the rye.” • The boy is walking on the street, not the sidewalk; is singing “just for the hell of it”; and seems oblivious to the traffic around him. • Holden loves it – how this boy seems so unique, carefree and unconcerned with the world.

  3. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Symbols • But Holden mis-hears the words to “Comin’ Thro the Rye,” a poem by 18th century Scottish poet Robert Burns. • All versions of the song ask: Is it wrong to “kiss” and “greet” someone you are attracted to if you meet them, even if you don’t tell the rest of the world about it and you aren’t committed to that person? • In other words, the poem seems to ask if casual sex, in the sense of sex without commitment, is wrong. • Casual sex is exactly the type that Holden finds so upsetting.

  4. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Holden might subconsciously change the words from “if a body meet a body” to “if a body catch a body” because of Holden’s confusion over sex. • More on this crucial metaphor later.

  5. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Other Symbols • “Little Shirley Beans”: Holden sees it as authentic, song by an R&B singer “very Dixieland and whorehouse,” rather than a white girl who would make it sound “cute as hell.” • Estelle Fletcher = Ella Fitzgerald? • The museum: “The best thing though in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was…Nobody’d be different. The only thing that would be different is you.”

  6. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Symbols • Phoebe would see the same things Holden saw when he was a kid, and he wonders how she’d be different every time she saw it. • “Certain things should just stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone.” • In the end, Holden refuses to go into the museum.Why do you think so?

  7. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Phoniness • For someone who dislikes phonies so much, Holden certainly attracts his share. • Luce, if he was as perceptible as he pretends to be, would find Holden’s confused feelings admirable in regard to having to like a girl a lot in order to be intimate with her. • Holden seems to demonstrate a strain of homophobia at the Wicker Bar: already uncomfortable with his own sexuality, he seems really uncomfortable with homosexuals, or “flits.” • He is afraid that, as Luce told him, that homosexuality can just “happen” overnight. • Despite Holden’s suspicion that Luce himself is a bit “flitty,” Holden still reaches out to him for guidance into adult sexuality, but this connection, too, fails.

  8. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Sexuality • Sally is an odd match for Holden. She is neither spontaneous nor sensitive, but rather conventional and somewhat of a social climber. • Salinger drops hints that the story behind Holden’s narration is more troubling than it appears: “I swear to God, I’m a madman.” • Holden’s mood swings with Sally indicate this: At first he’s in love with her, which then alternates between rapture and annoyance, culminating with the “royal pain in the ass” blast.

  9. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Sally’s coldness and lack of compassion are reflective of the greater world’s lack of concern about Holden’s plight. • Sally is not interested in all with Holden’s wild proposals, which show how ill-equipped he is to deal with the real world. • Holden’s behavior during their date is the surest sign yet that Holden is heading for emotional collapse.

  10. Chapters 16-19: Thoughts • Miscellaneous • The Lunts were a real-life, famous acting couple on Broadway. • Why do you think that it’s ironic that Holden likes The Great Gatsby? • Jay Gatsby might be the biggest phony of them all. • That said, the similarities between the two novels are striking.

  11. Lit Circles

  12. Lit Circles Gatsby Catcher First-person narrator: Nick “Old sport” Gatsby puts Daisy on a pedestal Gatsby refuses to accept change. Novel set in and around New York City Tom Buchanan: handsome, athletic insensitive Gatsby sees Tom as rival for Daisy’s affection • First-person narrator: Holden • “Old Phoebe” “Old Ackley” “Old Sally” • Holden puts Jane on a pedestal • Holden refuses to accept change • Novel set in New York City • Stradlater: handsome, athletic, insensitive • Holden sees Stradlater as rival for Jane’s affection

  13. “The Graduate”

  14. “The Graduate” • Ben Braddock is a 20-year-old (about to turn 21) college student; track star, awarding winning scholar; debate; cross country; newspaper editor. • Yet, it all means little to him upon graduation.

  15. “The Graduate” • He is disenchanted with the wealth and trapping of his upbringing and his parents’ generation/values. • His transformation from confused youth to young man begins with his affair with Mrs. Robinson, the wife of Ben’s father’s law partner. • Yet, it’s immediately clear how empty the relationship is: built solely on physicality. • “If you think I do this for any other reason than sheer boredom, you’re wrong.”

  16. “The Graduate” • Ben’s other important quotes: • “I’m sort of disturbed about things.” • I don’t think of you that way … I’m mixed up.” • “I’m just drifting” • “I’ve had this feeling ever since I graduated; I have the compulsion to be rude all the time.”

  17. “The Graduate” • Important quotes continued: • “Plastics … There is a great future in plastics” (Mr. McGuire) • “Is it just the things I stand for that you despise?” (Mr. Robinson)

  18. One last thought • Holden tells Antolini about a fellow student, Richard Kinsella, who tried to tell a story in class but was always interrupted by students yelling “Digression!” • Remember on the first day of class we watched a portion of Field of Dreams? • The protagonist in that story is named Ray Kinsella. • And in the book that the movie is based on – Shoeless Joe – Ray Kinsella kidnaps J.D. Salinger and takes him to a baseball game. • We have come full circle.

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