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Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering

Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering. Raising the Bar through Education and Licensure. Putting 10 pounds of stuff in a 5-pound bag. What's wrong with ASCE's new policy on engineering education, what's right about it, and what might we do about it?. Today’s Schedule.

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Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering

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  1. Engineering the FutureofCivil Engineering Raising the Bar through Education and Licensure

  2. Putting 10 pounds of stuff in a 5-pound bag. What's wrong with ASCE's new policy on engineering education, what's right about it, and what might we do about it?

  3. Today’s Schedule • Review ASCE Revised Policy 465 • How it came about – what’s good about it • What’s wrong with it • Perkins’ ideas

  4. ASCE Policy 465 ADOPTED OCTOBER 1998 The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of the Master’s degreeas theFirst Professional Degree for the practice of civil engineering at a professional level. ADOPTED OCTOBER 2001 The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of the Master’s degree or Equivalent as a prerequisite for licensure and the practice of civil engineering at a professional level.

  5. Non-Terminal Graduate Degree(for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) 30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level course work beyond that required for the baccalaureate degree

  6. HistoryIs This a New Issue? “Is it not time we should agree that a professional man [woman] cannot be produced in four years, but that an accredited civil engineering training must be definitely post graduate, with a broad undergraduate training as a pre-requisite?” Carlton S. Proctor, 1932 (ASCE President 1952)

  7. Member Comments ASCE EDUCATION CONFERENCES 1979 1985 1974 1990 1995 1960 Discussion of formal education beyond baccalaureate degree Image Compensation Public Health, Safety, & Welfare

  8. 2. Motivations for Change Compensation “Slippage” Reduction in Credits Professional Skills Development LeadershipPreparation Broader Formal Education Appeal To Youth Changing Systems Managementby Non-Engineers

  9. “Slippage”

  10. Once a Leader . . . CE is a Profession with a 4-Year Degree CE is a Learned Art 1800 1900 1816-25 Erie Canal is “First Engineering School” Law 1- 3 years Medicine 1-4 years

  11. A Leader No Longer 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 Medicine Law Architecture Pharmacy Accounting Years of Formal Education Occupational Therapy Civil Engineering Civil Engineering 1950 1900 1980 2000 2010 1920

  12. Reduction in Credit Hours

  13. Trend in Reduced Total Credit-Hours 150 140 Credits 130 120 1925 1950 1975 2000 Year

  14. Compensation

  15. Perceived Value:Starting GS Grades Doctor Dentist Lawyer Architect Occupational Therapist Pharmacist Accountant Optometrist Civil Engineer

  16. Median GS Grades:1967 & 1997 Medicine 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 15 14 13 12 11 10 Dentist Lawyer Civil Engr Civil Engr Median General Schedule Grade Accountant Pharmacy Optometrist O. T.* Nurse 1967 1997 * Occupational Therapist

  17. Average Yearly Starting Salaries1990-2000 (NACE*) *National Association of Colleges & Employers

  18. Leadership Preparation

  19. Management by Non-Engineers

  20. Management byNon-EngineersState Secretaries ofDepartments of Transportation

  21. Broader Formal Education

  22. From Mann, 1918 • But that, "engineering education needed curricular integration and a health dose of managerial and "'humanistic' courses" because "ultimately the engineer is " the creator of machines and the interpreter of their human significance." • He thought it was great that some universities could put "administrative" (management) courses in their curriculum.

  23. 1944, ASCE and predecessor of ASEE found • "Civil engineering graduates of the previous decade were deficient in their ability to communicate orally and in writing and had little interest in public affairs?

  24. Appeal to Youth

  25. Professions (1) High Opinion Careers “worth the extra effort” High school (2) College (3) High School (4) College (5) Doctors 78% 85% 90% 92% Lawyers 45% 38% 71% 77% Teachers 66% 83% 70% 81% Engineers 58% 72% 68% 35% Accountants/ CPA 30% 36% 40% 47% Declining Appeal to Youth 2000 Sample size: 1000 high school students, 1174 college students

  26. Changing Systems

  27. ProfessionalSkillsDevelopment

  28. SUMMARY:Motivations for Change Compensation “Slippage” Reduction in Credits Professional Skills Development LeadershipPreparation Broader Formal Education Appeal To Youth Changing Systems Managementby Non-Engineers

  29. ASCE Policy 465(Adopted by the BOD on October 9, 2001) The American Society of Civil Engineers supports the concept of the Master’s degree or Equivalent as a prerequisite for licensure andthe practice of civil engineering at a professional level.

  30. Masters or Equivalent (MOE) • PURPOSE: Increase breadth & depth of formal education • FLEXIBILITY: • Choice of focus • Choice of timing • Choice of access • QUALITY: Maintain rigor

  31. Engineering MOE’s(for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) • MEngr or MS in CIVIL ENGINEERING • MEngr or MS in OTHER ENGINEERING • PhD in CIVIL ENGINEERING • PhD in OTHER ENGINEERING

  32. PossibleNon-Engineering MOE’s(for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) • MS in SCIENCE • MS in ARCHITECTURE • MS in CITY & URBAN PLANNING • MASTER of BUSINESS ADMINISTRATIONMASTER OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION • PhD in SCIENCE

  33. 4. Implementation The Board has established the --TaskCommitteeon theAcademicPrerequisitesforProfessional Practice(TCAP3)

  34. 4. Implementation TCAP3Committee • Jeff Russell (Chair) • Stu Walesh (Vice-Chair) • Rich Anderson • Norm Buehring • Angela Duncan • John Durrant (practitioners, academics, younger members) • Jon Esslinger • Gerry Galloway • Brook Maples • Brian Parsons • Bobby Price • Tom Lenox

  35. When? • Will not happen overnight. • Will require cooperative effort. • (Accountants have 20 year plan for 150 credits for CPA)

  36. Summary • HISTORY— we have been here before. • MOTIVATIONS FOR CHANGE— we need to move ahead. • ASCE POLICY 465— we have more specificity. • IMPLEMENTATION— we, including a broad set of stakeholders, have a lot of important work ahead of us.

  37. End of ASCE Slides • They made a good case. • What’s wrong with it • Perkins ideas

  38. Non-Terminal Graduate Degree(for Holders of ABET-Accredited BSCE) 30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level course work beyond that required for the baccalaureate degree

  39. Right • 120 credits is inadequate for the professional practice of CE. Wrong • Policy adds 30 credits to the 140 credit degree as well. • Does not define what credits need be added.

  40. Let’s look at those additional credits • Practical matter of implementation

  41. Avoid Controversy

  42. Directions

  43. From UAF CEE Advisory Board

  44. What the Board said:

  45. Needed Education

  46. But • Even 138 credit BS • Lacks sufficient technical courses • For professional practice

  47. Structures Geotech Water Environmental Transportation Construction CE Sub-disciplines

  48. Extra Courses Required

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